Would you follow God even if he was an arsehole?
Would you follow him even if he created a universe with laws that just so happened to result in billions of people spending eternity in torment?
Would you sacrifice values of love & forgiveness, mercy & grace for a spot in heaven?
Those are the questions that have led me away from Christianity. Where it is imperative that followers reach out to their friends - not so they can have better lives, but so they are saved from God's punishment.
If we need Jesus to save us from God's wrath, what sort of God are we left with? Do I really want to spend eternity singing praises to that? Do I want to worship the God that ordered the murder of thousands in the Old Testament? The God that came up with laws such as "kill your kid if they curse you"? The God that creates people as gay, then rejects them because of it?
These are questions I have, that I would love to hear the perspectives of my many Christian friends, who I truly do love & respect.
Hit me up for a coffee & conversation...
I sometimes feel that these comments sections get neglected what with facebook and all...hence I'm pasting the comment I made to your facebook wall here as well. :P
ReplyDeleteYou and your treacherous thoughts What you said, it needs saying. In answer to your questions - No. I still see being a Christian as seeing that Jesus fella as a teacher worth learning from. I don't believe in all that other stuff that you stated that you do not believe in either (which means to many I have no right to claim myself a Christian though I still do, whatever).
Which means I've been on a journey figuring out what I do believe and that ain't always easy to articulate cos it's not wrapped up in neat little boxes. There is doubt and humility and frustration and wonder. Hence I'd be very interested in light of your article if at some point you could as honestly share not just what you've moved from but what you've moved towards
What have I moved towards? Dunno - doesn't yet have a name!
ReplyDeleteBut I believe in all the same stuff you believe in: forgiveness, love, grace, compassion, everyone is equal, homosexuality is real, greed is ugly, violence is never a good answer, community is vital.
In terms of God stuff... I dunno! My guess is there is a god, But how am I supposed to know if she/he won't communicate in easy-to-understand ways? Is that my fault? Can I ask a snail to please leave my garden, & if it doesn't happily tread on it?
But I'd love it if we could separate the God discussion from how we treat each other. I don't know whether there's a god, but I am sure of how we should treat each other. We should be able to discuss homosexual rights with our brains, without Bible verses being used as evidence.
To think of myself as Christian means not thinking of myself as Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, Secular Humanist etc. Now, I agree with bits of Christianity and I don't agree with others. But if I looked into those other religions (like, if I was born in a family/community from those traditions) I may well find that I agree & disagree with equal portions of those as I do Christianity. How, then, can I call myself Christian? Why would I want to?
So how do you reconcile the (often violent & condemning) God of the Bible with Jesus' values of love, forgiveness, etc? Does the Bible portray God inaccurately? That would seem to be a pretty major flaw for the main religious document of a religion.
You answered well, you may have noticed that I didn't ask you what you believed in terms of "God stuff." For me, the broader beliefs and values a person holds and operates under such as what you expressed is what is most important. Sometimes they're derived from or tied up in faith and often that's good and sometimes it ain't like when people use their religion to persecute others such as homosexuals.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you 100% on the important stuff. So, onto the other...
On calling yourself a Christian. You don't need me to tell you that you don't have to. Heck, if God exists, she/he ain't Christian or Hindu or Buddhist or whatever, she/he existed before all that and God will still be God despite man made religion. So why do I still do it? I don't really believe in religion or in a book. Not that I see those things as inherently evil - far from it (though we have much to answer for throughout history in how we've utilised these constructs). I see them as human expressions throughout history pointing to and trying to understand this mysterious God figure. I reckon they have much to offer in that regard but they're not the final word on anything.
So am I tribal, am I stubborn? Am I still a Christian due to the cultural context I was brought up in? Perhaps. But I wasn't always one, I dropped the moniker for 14 years. So partly it's about choosing to follow Christ (hence Christian) and partly it's sort of like a raised middle finger (not very Christ-like) to other Christians who have derived such different values from it that I refuse to let them run free with the term to meet their own ends, because you know what...it still means something to me. It has inspired and continues to inspire great things despite all the baggage it also carries. As much as I sometimes want to rid myself of that baggage, I feel like Christianity needs to own its wrongs and right them and maybe I should be party to that.
Then again, maybe we all would be better off dropping religion like a hot potato. Shedding ourselves of layers of history and prejudice and guilt. I don't see it happening though, so do I operate within that sphere or outside it...or both? For me, both. It sort
How do I reconcile bits of the Bible? Short answer, I start by seeing it as written by humans. There's a much longer answer but I've gotta go...so maybe more later.
Sad we can't do this over coffee...but I guess this way it invites others to the table.